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Author Topic: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...


MarylinC
Neon
Posts: 18
I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: May 25, 2017, 03:14

Firstly hello to you all.

I just registered with Atheism UK today and this is my first ever contact with any organised group of this kind.

Like most people in this Country, I went through the regular (non-faith) school system and went through a lot of of teaching about christianity. I was never convinced by it and always felt more drawn to things where there was scientific proof. I also grew up to be an animal lover and grew up on a diet of David Attenborough documentaries which gave me my fascination with natural science. The more I learned, the more I was convinced that god does not exist.

The issue around religion has increasingly troubled and frustrated me over recent years.

Whenever I listen to prominent atheists I generally feel very frustrated by their failure to deal well with certain things that I believe are crucial points to counter many of the problems caused by religion.

I find often they become intimidated and scared off as soon as religious supporters raise the prospect of taking offence which shuts down debate. I would like to see them being stronger in how they handle that. I always find it a good tactic to pre-empt that by pointing out straight away that I am not offended by people who believe different things to me but I don't accept people becoming offended just for expressing a point of view.

Another point I never hear mentioned is that these religious books were written thousands of years ago by people with thousands of years less education or evolution of their moral standards than we have now. To me, there is a major problem with that because religious people use these books as rule books. The problem with that is that they say the books are the words of their gods which means you can't change them. Books like the Bible and the Qu-ran I see as massively out of date rule books which have become frozen in time. Religious leaders are constantly twisting themselves in knots trying to reinterpret them in an attempt to deal with the changing moral standards of our modern day culture.

The issue I have with this is that it's brilliant if good hearted people are driving things but the books are capable of being interpreted in very different ways by people with more sinister motives.

For that reason I believe it's incredibly important to keep persuading people to put away their religious books and stay well away from religion.

BTW, I tried to Google this but am I the only person who seems to have noticed that for all the rules written into the Bible there is not one word about "Thou Shalt Not be a Paedophile"? How did their all seeing and all knowing god miss that out?



Alcuin
Administrator
Posts: 975
Re: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: May 25, 2017, 14:29

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 03:14
Firstly hello to you all.... I also grew up to be an animal lover and grew up on a diet of David Attenborough documentaries which gave me my fascination with natural science. The more I learned, the more I was convinced that god does not exist.

Welcome, Marylin and thanks for contributing to the forum. Many of us are increasingly frustrated by religion and the superstition it promotes.

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 03:14
Whenever I listen to prominent atheists I generally feel very frustrated by their failure to deal well with certain things that I believe are crucial points to counter many of the problems caused by religion.

I find often they become intimidated and scared off as soon as religious supporters raise the prospect of taking offence which shuts down debate. I would like to see them being stronger in how they handle that. I always find it a good tactic to pre-empt that by pointing out straight away that I am not offended by people who believe different things to me but I don't accept people becoming offended just for expressing a point of view.

Good points. It’s just as wrong to take offence unduly as to offend intentionally.

Non-believers try to argue strongly but folk like Richard Dawkins, Hitchens and Bill Maher are already perceived by many as 'aggressive atheists', 'militant atheists' or ‘new atheists'. Everyone wants to address the issues and not be aggressive or attack believers personally.

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 03:14
Another point I never hear mentioned is that these religious books were written thousands of years ago .. religious people use these books as rule books. The problem with that is that they say the books are the words of their gods which means you can't change them..
The issue I have with this is that it's brilliant if good hearted people are driving things but the books are capable of being interpreted in very different ways by people with more sinister motives.

For that reason I believe it's incredibly important to keep persuading people to put away their religious books and stay well away from religion.

Religionists see themselves as ‘defending the faith’ and ‘following’ (Jesus, Mohammed, whoever). In reality they are simply being asked to give up superstitions and recognise that morality doesn't arise from or increase due to religion. Far from it.

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 03:14
BTW, I tried to Google this but am I the only person who seems to have noticed that for all the rules written into the Bible there is not one word about "Thou Shalt Not be a Paedophile"? How did their all seeing and all knowing god miss that out?

That may have been a problem with Allah’s Mohammed, but most religionists see everything through the prism of their good book.

There are two distinct problems. One is superstition (god, prayer, afterlife, salvation) and the other is organised religion.

The main thing is to ensure freedom of speech and expression, including freedom of and from religion. Freedom from religion is being challenged in England & Wales by the introduction of 100% faith schools.

http://www.evilbible.com/

It can be difficult to get any religionist to define their god, but all gods in godchecker.com are obviously myths. One person's mythology is another's theology.



MarylinC
Neon
Posts: 18
Re: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: May 25, 2017, 16:05

Thanks for replying Alcuin.

I feel this point about taking offence is a massively important one because it is having such a massive impct on our society. Our political leaders are all so terrified of offending religious people that they are almost inviting people to continue indulging in these god dillusions.

I consider myself to be very fair minded and I pride myself on my belief in inclusiveness, being able to accept difference, equality and respect for all - but I also believe in truth and reality. For me, natural science is where I feel I've found that truth.

How many more people have to die in religious violence before politicians stop twisting themselves in knots and pandering to religion which just encourages more people to indulge in god dillusions and run towards the very thing that then gets abused by violent insane people for their own greedy and hateful purposes.

Before I joined here yesterday I looked at joining the Humanist society. One of the questions on their 'Are you a Humanist' quiz asked if I felt our government should be nuetral and tolerant to everyone regarless of their beliefs or whether they should actively encourage atheism and a fully secular society. I chose the latter so the test only rated me as 92% humanist which made me feel my view wouldn't be welcome there.

I do believe in kindness and respect for everybody but I can also see the damage religion is doing to our world. Although I am against bans, I do believe every opportunity to debate and encourage people away from religion is crucial and it needs to start with our politicians getting off the fence on this issue and focusing on evidence and truth rather than indulging peoples religious dillusions.



Alcuin
Administrator
Posts: 975
Re: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: May 26, 2017, 19:11

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 16:05
...
I feel this point about taking offence is a massively important one because it is having such a massive impact on our society. Our political leaders are all so terrified of offending religious people that they are almost inviting people to continue indulging in these god delusions.

I agree, but the Tory Party in particular seems keen on more than faith schools. Sadly, they seem disproportionately religious and so positively do invite indulgence in these god delusions.

Quote from MarylinC on May 25, 2017, 16:05
I do believe in kindness and respect for everybody but I can also see the damage religion is doing to our world. Although I am against bans, I do believe every opportunity to debate and encourage people away from religion is crucial and it needs to start with our politicians getting off the fence on this issue and focusing on evidence and truth rather than indulging peoples religious delusions.

Absolutely.

As for the (British?) Humanist Society membership, 92% is a very high score and the purpose of the quiz isn't to discourage members with differing views. Quite the contrary, in fact. All views are welcome, it is promoting superstitions that isn't welcomed.



steven k-
palmer
Neon
Posts: 19
Re: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: January 8, 2020, 14:01

Hi
Like you I avoided the Humanists. They believe all views are equal and should be tolerated. I dont. I'm sick of half witted religious beliefs affecting my life. Paying taxes to keep bishops in the House of Lords. Not being able to express my disdain for Islam and all it stands for without being accused of being a racist. The situation is bad enough in this country with our tiptoeing around believers for fear of upsetting the poor dear's delicate sensitive souls; in the US it is on a different scale and is very worrying indeed. Dont get me started on what is happening in Iran Pakistan Bangladesh India and Thailand where thousands are dying all down to religious intolerance.



Alcuin
Administrator
Posts: 975
Re: I hope Im not sticking both feet in my mouth but here goes...
on: January 9, 2020, 18:16

"[Humanists] believe all views are equal and should be tolerated. I dont."
As a humanist and a Humanist, I don't either. I haven't met a humanist who did believe that and can't see what you mean.
Having read your posts, I can't find another point on which we differ at all.

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