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Author Topic: Did Jesus even exist? R Carrier


Alcuin
Moderator
Posts: 1007
Did Jesus even exist? R Carrier
on: June 7, 2018, 11:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYRoYl7i6U
A number of things struck me about what was asked in the Question and Answers period after one of Richard Carrier's talks. One in particular is that he said that secular scholars of the Historicity of Jesus are in a minority.

He has also produced a peer reviewed book which shows how little, post 30CE and unreliable is the evidence for Jesus and Christianity's myths.

I think that religion teaches humanity no end of a lesson and one lesson is how hard it is for some people to follow evidence and reason without personal investment in where it leads. Religionists seem determined to believe there is not only a god, but a religion specific one, such as a Abrahamic god or Hindu ones. They never start by defining god and then examining with indifference whether evidence supports that definition, which is what critical thinking seems to me to demand.



mikek
Neon
Posts: 10
Re: Did Jesus even exist? R Carrier
on: September 2, 2018, 18:52

Why would religionists start by defining god... they already know.

I thoroughly enjoyed Carrier's lectures on line and his books. I recommend them.



Alcuin
Moderator
Posts: 1007
Re: Did Jesus even exist? R Carrier
on: September 2, 2018, 21:50

Hi, Mikek and welcome to the Forum.
"Why would religionists start by defining god... they already know."
They don't "know". Just ask a religionist to define their god and see for yourself. If they know, it will be a simple job to define it - and to discredit it. Very often I find they discredit their god in the very process of defining what exactly they think it is. That has ended many superstitions.

There is no point in discussing a god before agreement on what god is.

Some Christians believe in the 3-in-1 god, for example, who intervenes in human affairs through miracles and revelations. Other Christians don't believe any of that. Almost no Christian I have ever met is prepared to insist god is "three persons in one", but that is supposed to be a central tenet of the faith. So which god do they "know"? That is why all worthwhile discussions need to start with a definition of god.



mikek
Neon
Posts: 10
Re: Did Jesus even exist? R Carrier
on: September 3, 2018, 11:27

I don't disagree with you at all re any discussion you might get in to. I was suggesting that most people who say they are religious without thinking deeply never question really what their god is...

And I've had countless deeper discussions where god appears to be a completely personal thing... ie not matching up with what I believe the formal religion of my interlocutor holds to be true. A willful and illogical need to cling to a superstition.

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