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Author Topic: The Rights of Women


Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
The Rights of Women
on: May 22, 2013, 09:24

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/05/attempts-to-protect-womens-rights-in-afghanistan-have-been-blocked-by-clerics-in-the-parliament

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2013/05/women-wake-up--your-dignity-is-negotiable

The above are two articles from the NSS website, both showing that the rights of women are being challenged globally by religion.

This is disgusting and we need to be standing up for women everywhere. Their rights trump those of religion each and every time.



bobcat
Calcium
Posts: 23
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 23, 2013, 08:10

i totally agree with what you are saying , but women seem to be their own worst enemy by being in general so complacent about it.
A friend of mine lives opposite a catholic church ,and every Sunday when the congregation is leaving ,it is noticeable that more than 50% are women. This in a religion were women are allowed to play no active part in doctrine or decision making. This reading from a bible that rates them on the same level as sheep or goats.
How many times on the news have we heard mothers being part of the honor killings of their daughters. Mothers being part of the genital mutilation of their daughters , mothers beating their children to death for not learning the verses of the Koran correctly .
I am all in favor of womens and all peoples equal rights , but they need to be more active in helping themselves.
To make a point ,i wonder how many of the people who use this forum are men and how many are women . As we are all trying to fight the religious bigots who would persecute them and have them live as second class citizens.
My mother is seventy and has Parkinson's disease, but she still insists on voting in all the elections she is entitled to vote in. This is because she knows she owes a dept of gratitude to the women that fought for her to have that right, and not to uses it (even if all the candidates are not worth voting for) would be like spiting in the face of the women who put their lives on the line to give her that right.

All the major religions are male driven macho ,bigoted organizations , and women must learn to speak up and say No to them.



Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 23, 2013, 10:06

I agree that all the religions are male dominated, run by men for men. It's always been a puzzle to me that women support them in such numbers. I think it must show the power of indoctrination at an early age, they get sucked in and can't see a way out.

There is too, the point that so many rationalist/atheist/humanist organisations appear to be solely inhabited by men. Are we driving women away from us? Do they not feel welcomed by us? Do they feel rejected by us? We need hem to swell our ranks, we need their input (as an aside, we also need to encourage more people from ethnic minorities to get involved and join us).

We have to get away from this idea that we are just a bunch of middle aged/old white guys.



richardbye-
rs
Calcium
Posts: 55
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 23, 2013, 11:35

i was looking at the stats on the atheist census and only 22% are women (in the UK). i think that does indeed show a trend. but i also support equal rights...the problem is, as bobcat points out...women certainly are capable of doing this by themselves, i think that the main failing of equal rights in general is that (to the people trying to get rights for) it comes across as patronising.
personally i would love to see more atheist women.

its also interesting to note that in the UK around half are made up of under 34 year olds
rich



Profane-
Jane
Calcium
Posts: 51
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 25, 2013, 12:10

Under another on-line username I have campaigned for decades to change the attitudes of the secularist and humanist organisations and journals and male atheists and have been met for most of that time by overt and covert denial, abuse and hostility. Nor are women, even atheist women, the sisterhood of myth and legend.

I could give you documented chapter and verse - actual examples of outrageous sexism and misogyny from my own personal experience. This despite always presenting the rationale and evidence, that I know displeases them, as dispassionately as I can and unless provoked, without rancour.

Especially hurtful has been the years without support and even abuse from gay rights activists in the secularist movement a cause that I and other feminists have actively supported. (My view that the prejudice against gay men is about the patriarchal attitudes to all 'illicit sex' and the role of women, was seen as raining on their parade.)

Derided and attacked as I still am, by humanists and others hostile to open criticism and opposition to religion, and by criticisms of women who use pseudonyms as many women have had to do in the past I persist.

Of all the issues on which atheism and secularism is relevant, the autonomy, freedom and equal rights - of over half the population is a prime atheist (and secularist and humanist) issue. Yet glaringly obvious as it is, it has been is still is for some of them - ignored.

And also - of all the issues that have done so much damage in preventing the progress of human society and institutions, the worst by far must be the relegation of women to a subservient, submissive and domestic role of second personhood.
When will the pope apologise to women?
When the seas run dry.

Women's subjection has for three thousand years, largely excluded the talents and contributions of women from every sphere of human advancement, education and academia, science and the arts, government and administration. Even in their areas of expertise, health and welfare, community, the environment, economy, farming and ecology, they have been just the drudges.

As always there have always been a tiny minority who, like the post enlightenment men who befriended and supported women atheist feminists in the early secularist movement. But they have been few and far between. Only now that we have a truly atheist organisation that has the courage it needs, are we seeing any signs of change.

It has been my dream of the last decade and I hope for the sake of all the great atheists, I am not going to wake up and find that that is all it is.

Being in the vanguard of social change is no fun - whether it is in relegating religion to the fiction shelves of the library or establishing women's rightful place beside men not behind them.

If you have read this far - well done & thank you.8-)



Stephen
Calcium
Posts: 557
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 25, 2013, 15:25

Hi Jane, welcome along. I certainly hope you find better attitudes in this group. I do agree that as 'democratic' as some humanist and atheist groups have claimed to be, equality of sex was something sadly lacking.

I find your point about gay rights activists interesting, as well as disturbing. I used to drink in a gay bar, although it is now closed. The only reason I used it was because the bar belonged to a good friend before he sold it and I liked it there. The attitudes were quite strange at times though, mostly I was accepted and had some good friends there, they knew I was straight, single and happy not to want a relationship at the time but also new I was a supporter of gay rights.

However, there was a large enough minority to be disturbing, with some saying I was being a hypocrite for supporting them and being positively straight. I am still not sure what positively straight is, as my only admission was I had never had a gay relationship and was happily single at the time, unfortunately some decided this was some sort of slur.

Der Zeit ihre Kunst. Der Kunst ihre Freiheit.



Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 25, 2013, 16:33

A good rant Jane. What a pity it needs saying though. I too hope that we can move forward and get women the respect and equality that they deserve. It still seems ridiculous to me that half of the population of this planet are still being regarded as less than full human beings, simply because they are female. It's bizarre, it's beyond belief, it's staggering, yet it's true.

Like Stephen I find your comments about gay activists interesting. I have never come across this before. For me, these things go together. I cannot see a difference between them. I fight for equality on all fronts and I'm somewhat surprised that someone fighting for their equal rights would want to bar someone else's equal rights.

As for when will the pope apologise to women? I wouldn't hold your breath, I think you'll be waiting a long time on that one. 🙁



richardbye-
rs
Calcium
Posts: 55
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 25, 2013, 22:48

apologise? ...well as per my article it took a whole new millenium to apologise for gallileo...so we may all be dust by then 😉



russell20
Calcium
Posts: 1575
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 25, 2013, 22:52

I have to agree with you Jane the attitude to women was something of a shock for me when I first came into contact with the atheist movement having been for many a long year a left wing activist. In fact after the infamous "reddit" incident, in which a young woman proudly had herself photographed with an atheist tract which her christian mother had bought her and was then treated to an onslaught of rape fantasies I wanted nothing further to do with online atheist activists.

But unless we pull together then the puerile prats mentioned above get to command the agenda and we can't allow that to happen.



Profane-
Jane
Calcium
Posts: 51
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 26, 2013, 07:59

Bobcat

The points you made are often quoted and I understand that without understanding how people react to centuries of cultural indoctrination it presents a paradox for the rational observer.

It could equally be said that the evidence (on which atheists rely) is that black people, men and women are also overwhelmingly religious. And for the same reasons IMO.

People have to learn how to survive in a hostile world of oppression and women have learned to side with men to curry favour. Sad but inevitable.

However, in my experience, once the spell has been broken, women and black people and other such groups come to atheism with a vigour and clarity that is often lacking in born, white non-believing men.



Profane-
Jane
Calcium
Posts: 51
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 26, 2013, 08:06

Lots of interesting posts here.

I found his youTube video recently.

Jackson Katz PhD presents a paradigm shift in thinking - on men's responsibility to oppose male violence, not just avoid the subject as a woman's issue. It is necessary he says, we have to understand how our ideas are culturally embedded in neural pathways that are not understood. How language is used in the process - (Significantly IMO the result of history and current domination of patriarchal religions.)

In opposing male supremacism:

*We have to understand it.

*Male violence is not just a problem for women.

*Violence and sexual abuse is not just a women's issue

*Men who are attacked are almost always the victims of other men.

*It is a leadership issue.

*'Sensitivity' training needs addressing as 'leadership' training.

*In our societies male violence is a 'men's leadership' failure.

*How men have been removed from a subject that intimately involves them, through the language of gender.

*Silence on this issue is to be complicit.

Search: 'Jackson Katz PhD, Violence & Silence, on youTube'



bobcat
Calcium
Posts: 23
Re: The Rights of Women
on: May 28, 2013, 08:22

I take your point Jane, but one thing that has always struck me as odd , is that nearly every woman i know has at sometime been along to see a psychic . And every time the tv shows someone standing out in the Arizona desert looking for UFOs they seem to be men. I know this is generalizing but i wonder if different sections of society are more predisposed to believe certain things and be more doubtful about others.

one thing i think i can say with a degree of certainty, is that whatever the makeup of a society .In general the more educated it is, the more atheist it is . That gos for men and women , black or white, fat or thin, tall or short.
Basically education should always triumph indoctrination and deep rooted stereotypical believes.



Light wave
Neon
Posts: 12
Re: The Rights of Women
on: June 2, 2013, 18:13

I once thought why dont more women stand up for themselves against men, Men are bullies and women are in fear of mens violence or threat of it. Religion perpetuates myths that god exists and that "he" is male and made "man" dominant over women. Of course men would say that....How extremely convienient for men. But its not acceptable for Law or Government to include religious beliefs at its foundation. Law, Government and Education must remain impartial and not show bias to any group.
As for athiest men and all men in general they must help women achieve more equal human rights because its the right thing to do regardless of their personal beliefs.

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