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Author Topic: Jeremy Clarkson


Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 26, 2014, 15:32

Interesting quote from Mr Clarkson in todays Sunday Times. He's talking about Syria.

You may say that it's been a seething nest of violence for 7,000 years and that people there will never stop fighting over who has the best imaginary friend

The situation in Syria is of course a lot more complicated than this glib little statement but in one respect he is correct, people there have been fighting each other for an awful long time over who has the best imaginary friend.



Virtus83
Calcium
Posts: 438
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 28, 2014, 20:25

If he means Syria then he is wrong. Syria was a client state under the aegis of the Carthaginian empire pre 2nd century, after which the Romans took control.

If he means the middle east in general, then it's by far and away the number 1 place on Earth for imaginary friend murder-fest!

It's so obvious to anyone who has a reasonable grasp of classical/ancient history that "God(s)" is simply a fictional proxy used by ambitious tyrants allowing them to attain clean hands in all foulness, and all measure of reward in apparent successes.

It is literally one of the oldest tricks in the book!



Sempsy
Calcium
Posts: 301
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 30, 2014, 21:51

Yes, you're both right, but please don't berate Clarkson - he might be a knob a lot of the time, but he does come out with some pearls of wisdom and we need people like him in the media to come on board (and bring all his media luvvies with him) to highlight the shit spouted by religious people....)

We should run a book on which middle (read Hitchens for more detail on middle, gulf, western states et al for clarification) eastern theocracy will be next to go into convulsions over "their" government next... Lebanon's been a bit quiet lately, but Jordan is my bet (now they've got over the shock of name change to Katie Price!)

Thing is though, I'm a bit optimistic about iran joining the modern world before too long - again, reading Hitchens, they clearly have a long history of non-belief and but got caught up in a 30 odd year phase of islamic shite....



Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 31, 2014, 00:20

Hmm, Jordan has been off the radar for a while so I don't know if anything is brewing there. Lebanon could be in trouble, they haven't really had a lot of time since their civil war, there's still a lot of tension there and the situation re Syria next door could cause problems.

Iran could be a dark horse, they could go either way.



Sempsy
Calcium
Posts: 301
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 6, 2014, 21:44

Oh come on Virtus83, don;t sit on the fence, join in using your massive knowledge of history, for which I give you the utmost respect (can I follow you on twotter?) or is this what historians do - wait until the result before placing their bets?

Only joking... ish:)



Virtus83
Calcium
Posts: 438
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 19, 2014, 13:08

I've always wondered what everyone seems to have against the sturdy old fence, agriculture
would be lost without it, not to mention the good old English front garden??!!

I'm not a historian though, just a big classics geek, and it is remarkable how much we
think we have moved on, oh so very wrong! The parallels are so obvious and would teach
a great deal, but then we don't teach the classics in the mainstream curriculum do we!!

I don't use "twatter" as it suffers from the same inane rectum inspection brigades that "facefuck"
did, and still does. No offence to any current users in the present company of course! ­čÖé

The simple fact is that the middle east is either going to deal with their irrational, reactionary
approach to their religious nonsense, or we end up making the Syrian conflict look like a sodding
desert sponsored tea party! Simple point is we get Islam dragged under the microscope and pull it
apart, revealing it for the plagiaristic barbarity manual that it is, or we scoff a multi-culty-cognitive-dissonance-blind-eye-spineless-creep pill, and jihad our way back to the stone age!!!

"Better a sour truth, than a sickly sweet lie"



Mr-
Integrity
Calcium
Posts: 208
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 19, 2014, 18:09

Quote from Virtus83 on February 19, 2014, 13:08I'm not a historian though, just a big classics geek, and it is remarkable how much we think we have moved on, oh so very wrong! The parallels are so obvious and would teach
a great deal, but then we don't teach the classics in the mainstream curriculum do we!!

I never learned 'classics' in school, do you have any particular favourites you can recommend me?



Virtus83
Calcium
Posts: 438
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 20, 2014, 15:47

I never learned classical history either, went to a R.C state school!! I remember by granddad using quotes and phrases to explain things to me, big fancy words I had never heard before. He told me what the classics were and I went looking for them. I also cannot get enough on Greek and Roman history, which is were most of the classics originate. I used to travel on the trains a lot when I was in the RAF, and would pop into W.H Smiths and look through the history section between stops and grab a new one every few months, then read them endlessly on the journeys.

Best place to start is probably a look at the Penguin Classics collection, this should be on amazon, waterstones etc. They are well written with good foreword intros and reviews on the content. Oxford classics is good for a particular book you want a really concise review of.

I would recommend "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius as a first book. I have mentioned this one to someone before on this site, it is probably my favourite as it is fascinating and also feels incredibly familiar. He was the Emperor of Rome depicted in the film "Gladiator" and is, I think, one of histories greatest examples of what all men, great and low alike, must face in life and how that life is lived.
He was literally master of the known world, able to crush nations at will, yet he considered the actions of his life with real scrutiny and examined whether or not he was a "good" man.

He wrote this as a private diary that was not to be revealed to anyone else, which adds credibility to its content, as it is not embellished to promote its public sales. I think after he died he wanted it burned, but his personal aide read it and couldn't bring himself to do it, so it survived and was later re-printed in greater numbers. Well done that man!!

Plato, Aristotle, Thucydides, Plutarch, Virgil, Epicurus, Socrates,
Homer, Livy, Aeschylus, Suetonius......There are plenty to choose from.
Some were what we call scientists, others philosophers or poets and statesmen.

This is what used to set the upper class apart from the lower class, Latin vocabulary
and a "classical" education. I see no reason why it should be elitist in any way now. It
would provide far greater depth into developing critical thinking and responsibility, than
simply battering kids to death with "look how evil Hitler is..." and cultural relativist R.E pish!!

Went off a bit there but hope that helps mate!



Mr-
Integrity
Calcium
Posts: 208
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 20, 2014, 18:31

Thanks for the ideas, I'll look them up!

I've read a couple of plato's books which were fascinating and The Meditations has been on my radar for quite a while, as has Epicurus. I need to hurry up and read those!

I went to Rome this summer, I barely know anything about their history apart from what I learned in school but had a brilliant tour guide. I found the place amazing, very impressive civilisation I would love to read up some more on the history.



Virtus83
Calcium
Posts: 438
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 23, 2014, 14:17

I've never been to Rome myself, that is an ambition of mine, but I would also like to visit the Acropolis and Pantheon in Greece. There are many excellent classical sites in North Africa and the middle east, but for obvious reasons they are not easily accessible without a degree of risk.

I went to Egypt a few years ago and visited Karnack and the Temple of Horus, incredible sights! Three and a half thousand years old and still standing, not a mention of Jesus, Jehovah, Muhammed or Allah any were!! How odd that is for apparently omnipotent super beings???

What ruined it for me was the big McDonald's on the main road, the small city of crappy gift shop tat merchants camped on the door step, and the amount of rubbish just drifting around in the air. I've never seen such a lack of cultural respect in one of the worlds most cultured historical sites!!



Guest
Calcium
Posts: 1161
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 23, 2014, 14:45

Rome is magnificent, well worth a visit (or several). Athens is a huge disappointment, dirty, smelly, and apart from the Acropolis, very little to see.



Mr-
Integrity
Calcium
Posts: 208
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 24, 2014, 13:55

I agree, went to Athens with my dad as a teenager, it was a big disappointment. My dad had booked the hotel online, not knowing it was slap bang in the middle of red light district! The hotel shared the building with a porno cinema and there were junkies, trannys and hookers walking streets at night, it was an eye opener to me at 14 years old!



Sempsy
Calcium
Posts: 301
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 27, 2014, 19:19

What a great dad taking you on an eye opener at only 14 years of age!



Mr-
Integrity
Calcium
Posts: 208
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: February 27, 2014, 21:39

LOL, he had no idea it was going to be like that, it was very exciting for me though. I snuck out of the hotel one night to walk the streets and see what was going on. Amazingly when I went to the porno cinema next door they took my money and allowed me into a film. It was seedy as hell, I went in to this pitch dark room full of men where a film was playing, it wasn't until I'd sat down and looked up at the screen that I realised it was hard core gay porn which was totally not what I was expecting! I couldn't get out of there fast enough, scared the life out of me as a 14 year old!

Wouldn't bother me now I'm cool with gay people but back then all I knew about homosexuality was what I'd learned in the play ground, I thought I was going to get 'bummed' or something!



Cider
Calcium
Posts: 23
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 3, 2018, 07:17

"The situation in Syria is of course a lot more complicated than this glib little statement but in one respect he is correct, people there have been fighting each other for an awful long time over who has the best imaginary friend".
Surely this applies the world over?, not just in the middle east, ( albeit very violent there). I fear that while you have one or more religions we will always have conflict, also, I fear that even if we didn't have religions, we would have conflicts!. Politics, greed, jealousy would fill the voids left by religions, power grabbing humans will always exist, our fellow creatures on this planet have really not much of a chance of survival, while we (supposed) intelligent beings are around!!!.



Alcuin
Administrator
Posts: 1007
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 3, 2018, 12:03

I am far more positive.

Look at the last three million years and there's been enormous development and progress. The level of violence has decreased markedly since WW2. Technological progress, quality of life and education have improved immensely. Poverty has decreased substantially since the 1970s. Polio is all but gone. I think people get their view of the world from the bomb-chasing media and TV news channels. I read about all the good things people do, though a minority always drag us down somewhat. It's the old 80:20 rule, 20% of people cause 80% of the trouble.

Lets not let the nasty 10% to 20% of humankind grind us down. They're not bright enough to do it, people must let them.

Just my humble opinion.



Cider
Calcium
Posts: 23
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: January 3, 2018, 15:29

I absolutely agree we have advanced markedly over the last three million years!. However, we still have religious wars/conflicts, in which all suffer not just the religious fanatics!. I know all about the minority dragging us down, three emergency tours of Northern Ireland taught me that lesson!. I have also seen the good we do as humans while serving and as a civilian!, I would love to see how much more ADVANCED we are at the end of the next three million years!!, if we still exist!!.



John416
Boron
Posts: 9
Re: Jeremy Clarkson
on: August 30, 2018, 23:42

Quote from Sempsy on January 30, 2014, 21:51
Yes, you're both right, but please don't berate Clarkson - he might be a knob a lot of the time, but he does come out with some pearls of wisdom and we need people like him in the media to come on board (and bring all his media luvvies with him) to highlight the shit spouted by religious people....)

We should run a book on which middle (read Hitchens for more detail on middle, gulf, western states et al for clarification) eastern theocracy will be next to go into convulsions over "their" government next... Lebanon's been a bit quiet lately, but Jordan is my bet (now they've got over the shock of name change to Katie Price!)

Thing is though, I'm a bit optimistic about iran joining the modern world before too long - again, reading Hitchens, they clearly have a long history of non-belief and but got caught up in a 30 odd year phase of islamic shite....

You can't really blame Jordan for reacting the way it has. Spending any time in close proximity to Peter Andre would mess any country up!

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