Challenging Religious Faith
Wonderful site. I finally registered. An ex muslim atheist here.
Some advice please:
My daughter (9 yrs old) attends a C of E “controlled” school (sadly, best in the area, by some distance). There have been various issues in the past that I have complained about (tickets for school plays ALWAYS donated to church, without any consultation), but have learnt to live with it. Today, they moved to a new level.
1) A local ‘pastor’ came to deliver the school assembly, and gave a demonstration in which he had two paper cups, one of which he soaked in holy water, one dry, then proceeded to set fire to the dry one, stating that this is what happenes to those that don’t believe in God (stated they will burn in hell). I called the school immediately upon hearing, and the administrator informed me that “you had to see the assembly in context..” and that “many of the children found it to be very funny (!?)”.
2) Child (not mine) was punished for not praying in assembly.
3) Priests from a local evangelical church attended to perform mock ‘baptisms’ for the children during an assembly
Please could you advise as to what steps I can take to try to deal with this? Are there options for reporting this? I have read up, and I understand that while schools are free to discuss and pray in assemblies, they are not free to prosthelytise, or be evangelical (irrespective of their status).
Thanks very much!
Yes, but you need to make a path of evidence. First of all i would write to the school expressing displeasure that this methodology is practiced, regardless of the schools faith denomination, such things are dismissive of any other or no faith.
Even the pope has spoken against such things, recall the Mohammed cartoons that caused murderous Islamic radicals to attack people?
The Pope rather than denounce radical Islam spoke against offending faith.
Perhaps research that a bit, there were numerous religious leaders who did this, and other examples than this.
Second and simultaneously, contact school governors. And request details of fund raising by the school and where it goes and request a detail of any state funds and spending. Point out the displeasure that there is no choice of where funding goes.
If you have no suitable response, contact ofsted and your local MP. I am not an expert but will happily dedicate time to looking into the issue for you if you require extra help if they maintain or worsen this approach.
Hi there Matt (mop101). Although I am an avowed Atheist my children were educated through the C of E system (they are now all in their thirties), however, I took the view that school is only a part of the education process and that education at home also forms a part of those critical years. I was brought up in Irish Roman Catholicism, which is the worst kind, and the family unit formed (and still forms) part of the indoctrination process prior to the in-school REAL brainwashing (in my time by means of the Roman Catholic Penny Catechism coupled with the cane), however, I rejected God(s) aged 10 and refused to go into Catholic secondary education. My children were encouraged at home to be sceptical and look for sound evidence before believing anything at all (from my own childhood experience in the late 1950’s and early 1960’s). I ‘enlightened’ them as to the contradictions and nonsense of the Bible – talking snakes, talking burning bushes, talking donkeys, and this so-called all-powerful God cannot defeat the inhabitants of the valley for they had iron chariots (Book of Judges 1:19) etc, and also as to how this so-called Divine God was a proponent of mass murder of anyone who did not believe, was a proponent of slavery, a proponent of seizing women as ‘victors spoils’ etc. May I suggest that you go through a Bible with your daughter and educate her as to the nonsense in the book which these nutters profess to be the Word of God and in so doing, put her in a position of being able to level ridicule at these fools irrespective of their age. There are books available such as The Unholy In Scripture – The Dark Side of the Bible, which are useful tools to ‘cherry-pick’ the evil within the Bible (if you elect not to guide your daughter through this piece of literary rubbish) as opposed to the Apologists who negelct to enlighten anyone of the fact that it is a Book of pure evil. As a matter of interest only one of my children would now profess to be Christian but she is the less intelligent of the three (which in itself tells me something), the other two I would describe as Atheist, but not Anti-Theist.
I still have my own very first Bible from the 1960’s but having set out to go through it and yellow hi-lite all of the absolute bullshit, found that, at the end of my task, the whole book was fluorescent yellow.
You’re email link appears not to work. Setting up a DD led to a page “That can’t be found”!!?? Tried again – same outcome. Now I have discovered that TWO Direct Debits have been set up! Please sort this mess out.
Graham, Our treasurer advised you yesterday by email:
I have cancelled the 2 GoCardless Direct Debits. see attached screenshot of the cancelled Direct Debits.
Money has not been taken and will not be taken from your account
In case you want to try to buy 1 tickets again the link is here:
Otherwise you should be able to buy the ticket on the door
Thanks for your understanding and sorry for the inconvenience
AUK Treasurer and Membership Secretary
Actually, Atheism is BS and has its roots in confused Western scholars. To understand this, you have to understand the history of knowledge in Islam first and then later in the West. In Islam, the primary sources of knowledge were at first the Quran and Hadith in the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). As time went on, the Islamic Empire was relocated from Medinah to Syria under the Umayyad Dynasty and then to Baghdad Iraq, where the Abbasid Dynasty was formed. Under the Abbasid Caliph Harun Al Rashid, a Golden Age of Islam began to emerge about 1200 to 1300 years ago. Of course at this same time, Europe was going through its Dark Ages but Arab scholars were making great progress in the various fields of knowledge like Astronomy, Astrology, Alchemy, Mathematics, Medicine, Science etc. So Caliph Harun then invited a delegation of Greek scholars from Greece to Baghdad and knowledge was thus exchanged on both sides.
If you study these ancient Arabic manuscripts, you’ll see that many of them reference the Greek scholars of old like Hermes Trismegistus (Thrice Great Hermes),Aristotle etc. So what would happen is that the Arab scholars of old would write a treatise on Astronomy or Physics or Medicine etc and they would then postulate laws. These laws would define planetary movements in Astronomy for example which were physical laws, but they would reference the Quran and Hadith as the basis for postulating the law. So actually the various sciences were extracted from the theology (Quran and Hadith). In other words the sciences confirmed the theology and the theology confirmed the sciences (They were not separate from one another.) So when you studied Science or Astronomy in Islam, your faith in God actually increased and you came closer to your Creator and you were able to recognize Him properly.
After the Mongol invasion and the fall of Baghdad, knowledge was destroyed and Islam became a dark and ignorant religion. Then about 500 years ago in Europe, Western scholars began translating some of the Arabic manuscripts into Latin. All famous scholars like Newton, Rene Descartes, Galileo Galilei, Da Vinci etc were influenced by the Arab scholars of old. But the vital mistake (deliberate?) that these Western Scholars made was that they separated Islamic Theology from Science. Perhaps they were unable or even unwilling to understand the deeper meaning of Islamic theology as it applied to the various sciences so they simply erased it to their own detriment, keeping only the science. Perhaps the church said, “Recant, or we’ll kill you!” and the scholars were forced to delete Islamic theology from the various fields? We’ll never really know except this now becomes the root cause of Atheism in the West.
So it’s actually Islam that caused the Renaissance in the West that took Europe out of the Dark Ages and “Turned the lights on” so to speak. Because of this deliberate faux par on the part of Western scholars, the West has been plagued with Atheism for the last 5 centuries or so and erroneously believe that they (not the Ancient Arabs) are the discoverers and authors of the modern sciences and they’ve convinced many of this in the Muslim world as well, hence the confusion in the Muslim world. Therefore studying Science in the West actually leads you to Atheism and more confusion because Western Scholars omitted Islamic theology. This is also the reason why many Western scientists convert to Islam when they read the Quran. So the mistake made in the West was to remove Islamic theology and the mistake made in the Muslim world was to remove Science whereas in actual fact they are interrelated.
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