Telling lies for God This content is restricted to site members. If you are an existing user, please log in. New users may register below.
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20 responses to “Muamba praises God for ‘miracle’”
Once again believer is conspicuous by his/her absence when challenged with logic, reason and factual dissemination, a mental ability that seems to elude nearly all theists. The only truth of religion, is that it is a lie.
What I want to know is, if he prayed to be kept from harm by his god…why did he have a cardiac arrest in the first place?
Rains in Africa, however, would not be a miracle; they would be a natural phenomenon.
Well, that someone wasn’t doing a very good job seeing as how it allowed such a life threatening condition to develop in the first place.
“Someone up there was watching over me. What happened to me was really more than a miracle. On the morning of the game I prayed with my father and asked God to protect me – and he didn’t let me down. I am walking proof of the power of prayer”. Muamba.
Point 1: By the term “up there…watching over me”. Does he mean the trained medical staff keeping constant surveillance or God? The childish ideology of the watchful father in the clouds rings through here, nothing but atmosphere into the vacuum of space and the universe beyond. No evidence exists from Gagarin’s first legendary steps into the cosmos to modern telescopic and satellite data that “a being” is watching us.
Point 2: “What happened…more than a miracle”. He (Muamba), feels that specific divine intervention was enacted on his behalf by his God in response to the heart failure. Zero evidence to support this. Human intervention proven absolutely to be cause of survival.
Point 3: “I prayed…asked God to protect me-he didn’t let me down”. Again divine intervention given as reason for survival. Further, Muamba says he personally asked for the privilege from God to be shielded from harm, the heart attack proves God failed in this absolutely, then mere humans were required to sort out God’s mess. Praise be to the honoured mortals!
Point 4: “I am walking proof of the power of prayer”. I think point 3 pretty much sends Muamba’s deluded statement to the theistic nonsense bin it belongs in. He is walking proof of the power of human medical advances and social empathetic evolution giving us the technology and will to save our fellow homo sapiens lives.
Muamba attributes his experience to God because he wants to, not because it is the fact of what happened. Believing in God is his choice and he is welcome to it, however to use the event as an advertisement for his beliefs and opinions while having no proof in the for, but an avalanche of proof against, is childish and irresponsible. Plus an insult to his true saviours, the medical professionals.
I agree with other comments here; his recovery was due to the prompt and high level of medical expertise to hand; also the physical condition of his body as a trained athlete meant his body was strong and fit; no miracle. To claim it as a miracle is nonsense, and also a real slap in the face for all those dedicated and trained doctors, nurses and paramedics who really saved his life.
What would be a miracle is if his god would find some compassion and send a few rainclouds on a regular basis to those poor suffering in Africa from drought – dying painfully from malnutrition and thirst on a daily basis – strange that his god chooses to ‘save’ a fit, healthy (apart from the heart of course), well fed and nourished young man who collapses on a football field in one of the most medically advanced cities in the world, yet does nothing within his supposed unlimited power to ‘save’ many thousands of others who have no such amenities or advantages to hand.
Bottom line: He got ill, the medics saved his life through emergency first aid and excellent aftercare once stabilised! There is no need for divine intervention or any other supernatural explanation here. He simply had good access to excellent medical care when he needed it.
Clearly he was not actually dead as the medics sustained him. If he was dead, he would still be dead. That’s what dead means!
He should be incredibly grateful that he happened to fall ill in a place where he could received excellent emergency medical treatment when he needed it.
@believer, so, no explanation then. Typical theist, you want everyone to dance to your tune, No will do.
GMR your logic is non-existent because it is false. Did Muamba claim he had risen from the dead? The miracle he had in mind was that he lived through the heart attack. Obviously too subtle a point for you to grasp. There is no meme called “religious faith” only your contention that there is. Your final sentence confirms your bigotry. ” Atheism UK’s principal object is to challenge religious faith, and correspondents here are required to support that object..” So the comment “feel free to leave a comment” is hypocritical. You want to challenge religious faith provided people with religious faith don’t challenge you!! In other words these are forums for members of a mutual admiration society. Professor Ruse’s book is an excellent volume, perhaps you should learn to read.
believer, no, I’m not going to read Mr Ruse, I want your explanation.
On the contrary, it literally makes all the difference between life and death. The true statement was:-
In other words, his heart was working for those 78 minutes, albeit assisted. He was alive and, since he is still alive, he did not rise from the dead – no miracle.
Without it, the statement becomes:-
In other words, his heart was not working for those 78 minutes, assisted or not. He was dead but, since he is now alive, he rose from the dead – a miracle.
The logic is impeccable and the truth is inescapable.
Muamba’s mind – and, apparently, our correspondent’s – is infected with the meme we call “religious faith”. It makes people believe things that are demonstrably false or self-contradictory, and disbelieve things that are true and self-consistent.
Atheism UK’s principal object is to challenge religious faith, and correspondents here are required to support that object.
Richard G – the omission of the word “unassisted” is irrelevant and certainly not a lie. There is no evidence that the player deliberately omitted the word to support his interpretation of what happened. Graham Martin-Royle – read Michael Ruse’s book on the subject (Ruse is an atheist by the way). My concept of God is my business but I can tell you that it has never included the notion of a bearded sky fairy which is the stock in trade of atheists unwilling to acknowledge that belief can be rational and relevant to contemporary debate.
Natural selection is a social construction? Please explain what you mean by that.
Also, explain exactly what your god is.
To drop the “unassisted”, from “it took 78 minutes to get his heart working unassisted”, is to tell a lie.
To assert: “miracles happen”, genuinely believing it to be true, is not to tell a lie, even if false, because “a lie is a deliberate untruth”.
The analysis here, however, is altogether different. The lie was altering the account of the case to make it appear miraculous when, on the true account, it was not.
It’s arrogant to accuse Muamba of telling lies for God. A lie is a deliberate untruth. Muamba expressed his truthful belief. You may disagree with him, you may argue that other factors provide a more accurate explanation but to dismiss his belief as telling lies is typical of many non-believers’ conceited attitude towards theists. Such conceit includes atheist mythology that theists believe in a bearded sky fairy and that natural selection is other than a social construction.
Many people who suffer from near death experiences always attribute there survival to god. For some reason they leap to the fantastic as to why they survived. The reason Muamba survived is because we as a species in many ways have gone a long way to overcome our genes (in other ways we have not), we have developed a social ethical system in which we will not let people die, we have used our evolutionary attributes such as intellect to be able to understand how our organs and internal systems work to such an extent that we have been able to save people that otherwise would of died. Natural selection has ensured our survival, through that we have developed the great field of science which protects us from suffering and death, of course science cannot protect us from death indefinitely but we certainly have a longer fruitful life because of it. So lets us praise the great medical achievements we have made and those doctors, nurses and scientists that have made our longevity possible.
Great to see Muamba has recovered such a shame he attributes his “Miracle” recovery to a bearded sky fairy!
Muamba if your god was protecting you, you probably wouldn’t have been in this situation in the first instance!
Congratulations to the actual PEOPLE who helped you recover.
Don’t keep the faith!
There IS evidence that magical spells and incantations commonly known as prayer DO have an effect.
A 2006 study on patients undergoing heart surgery concluded: Intercessory PRAYER ITSELF HAD NO EFFECT on complication-free recovery from CABG but CERTAINTY of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a HIGHER INCIDENCE OF COMPLICATIONS. — “Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer”; Benson et al.; Am. Heart J. 2006;151:934-42.
The “Times” reported [2nd August 2009 — http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6736424.ece%5D that two parents had been convicted of murdering their daughter by prayer. They were later sentenced [http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Praying-Parents-Dale-and-Leilani-Neumann-Jailed-For-Letting-Daughter-Madeline-Die-In-Wisconsin/Article/200910115401065?f=rss] to six months in prison.
Maybe all those paramedics and doctors and nurses were all working for the devil cos it was gods plan that he should die and go to heaven that day?
Seriously, if there is a god, why did he make him collapse, why spend all that time, energy and effort on just this one person, making him ill just so that he can then make him better? Why not just leave him in good health?
And if no help came from all the medical staff, if it was all this deity’s work, then next time he gets taken ill, I suggest we leave him to his gods tender mercies and see how he fares.