Thanks for writing back John. I would welcome a chance to join your chat, however I don’t have the slightest idea how to do that. I don’t have a computer that has a camera, I don’t participate in social media of any kind, and I have a 2 G phone with no internet etc. Sending this email is the limit of my tech ability. I understand your position of political abstinence as far as your organization goes, but what I was hoping to achieve is to break the logjam of the taboos in place to firewall against criticism of Israel. What I’m asking organizations such as yours to do is not make an ‘official’ statement at this time (which is painful to even think about having to do), but to alert your friends on a personal level to keep the narrative on the straight and narrow, and not let it be taken over by the Israeli propaganda empire. In other words, “We have to keep our eye on the ball!”
I read today of a young woman in France who was made to step down from her Olympic position because she posed a few words questioning the motives for this genocide. This is outrageous and unacceptable to the atheistic principle of human rights. Your last statement about the problems of religion is dead on. It is 100% dehumanizing, and how could it be anything less when they revere and worship something that is not human? It’s like my mother used to say … “You can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit!” Of course, we must expose, oppose, and depose all forms of this type of ideology, but the Abrahamic/Judaic trifactor of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is by far and away the most influential. They love to boast about modern ‘Civilization’ being manufactured by Christianity (interesting they would use the word ‘civilized’ given their history of torture and mass murder etc.)
Anyway … They argue this point to the death (literally), but Christianity and Islam are both Judaic from A to Z, and yes … modern civilization was indeed forged from this political ideology. I call it an ideology and not a religion intentionally, because the three sects of Judaism are not in practice a ‘religion’ in the traditional understanding of being a spiritual roadmap to an enlightened from of human existence and a means of connectivity to the metaphysical properties of the universe and so on … No … no … no … It is nothing of the sort. It offers a sense of fellowship etc. that has been offered in place of real personal growth, but the only way to achieve the highest level of spiritual awareness is to actually die! It can’t happen in THIS realm according to their beliefs – but only after you’re gone. So, in reality, Judaism is not a ‘religion’, it is a political ideology; their ‘Constitution/Bill of Rights’ if you like being the 2 volumes of the bible – especially the Old Testament which of course is the foundation of all 3 sects. They differ on what happened later, but they all agree on that.
So, in essence, Judaism is a political movement above all else – a political party, complete with a defining manifesto and hierarchical system of governance, legality, finance, social structure, etc. To get back to their contention that modern society has been manufactured by this political ideology … Yes, indeed it has 100%. But take a look at where we are as a society and a species! I.E. massive debt and wealth inequity, pollution, racism, disease, constant war and inhumane acts of unspeakable cruelty toward one another, and on and on and on and on … So, if they want to claim responsibility for this condition … go ahead. Congratulations!
Bob Hall
I won’t go into any depth on the historical inaccuracies of your letter, but I will set about in the near future to point out some things about the recent history of this area (perhaps going back to Napolean). I’d like to make a point about racism that can be extracted from the statements you made about the Good old Britts to the effect that people came and saw that the land wasn’t being used etc., and so they ‘used’ it. This is a MAJOR issue that needs to be addressed. First off, it’s untrue except for the fact that this narrative indeed has been used as an excuse for imperialism. The “Take … take … take” mentality of Abrahamic cultism gives the green light to move in and seize ownership on the grounds that the people there aren’t important, or you’re MORE worthy etc. of that land. This is as Jewish a concept as there is. And naturally, being the offspring of Judaism, that attitude was adopted and propagated by Christians and Muslims in the same way. There were other religions etc. before judaism, but it can’t be disputed that the systems we live under today are the most successful in history. We can look at every case of imperialistic expansion and attach the biblical interpretation of racism to it. For example … In Africa where they decided “These savage sub-humans are not going to mine these diamonds – so we should!”. When the first settlers came to the new world, they regarded the natives as soulless beasts. They converted them to Christianity and/or killed them.
This pattern of disregard for native populations has been the MO for the majority of crimes against humanity throughout the entirety of the Judaic Period of History. It has led to irreversible eco-system destruction, genocide, total annihilation of people, cultures, languages, destruction of historical landmarks and artifacts … and on and on and on. In the case of the illegal immigrants that flowed into Palestine since the late 1800’s, they believed THEY had more right to the land – god given but also because they would ‘develop’ it. So, you are correct there that they did indeed believe they were more qualified to determine what was ‘best’ for that land. But ethically speaking, it wasn’t their decision to make. Maybe the Palestinians didn’t plant flowers on their side of the street because they like cactuses – perhaps they put more value on untouched wilderness and preserving the natural eco-systems of THEIR land … maybe it gave them pleasure to see the land as their ancestors did and they wanted to in some way preserve this memory … or maybe they liked the color of sand! Maybe their philosophy is “If you don’t really need it, why take it?” Whatever the reason, it’s not legal, moral, or ethical to come and take it just because you can, or you can make a buck off it and leave a strip mine or deforested ecological disaster. Religious cultist have shown over and over that the Earth is something to be used and abused – because there is a better place to go to after, and god put this all here for them! They believe they know what is best for the Earth and the people on it and therefor have an obligation to proceed without remorse. They are not accountable to their fellow human citizens. This diminishes the value of the human beings that they conquer. In most cases (including the one right now in Israel) they rationalize and cover up their guilt by portraying their victims as lesser beings – dogs, animals, evil, and every other racist tag they can pin on them. You see … racism isn’t just calling a person a Nigger or a Chink, or saying there are “Many” Arabs who are not lazy good for nothing warmongers. There is DEEP institutional supremacy in religious beliefs that have their roots in the biblical concept of judging and leveraging the value of human life in contrast to another – or to god. THIS is the level of racism that should concern us all. Racism is not a ‘human’ quality – it’s a fundamental religious belief.
For the record … when the Jewish ‘Settlers’ began cultivating the land the stole, they did so by burning out the farms that were there, and irrigating the land with water that left the Palestinians in perpetual drought conditions. And it was actually underpaid Palestinian farmers that did the heavy lifting FYI. And to finance it they used money that was mostly taken from the American and British public in the form of ‘Aid’. Israel is not a democracy (not that that’s a pure and honest system anyway). It’s a religious dictatorship, and it has to go just like all the others. I for one have had all I can take of being extorted and enslaved by these monsters. As John Lennon said … “The world is totally insane because it’s being run by people who are totally insane!” We are an intelligent, problem-solving people. We need to start acting like it. A good place to start, as atheists, is to look at the bibles further than on face value, because our task is much bigger than just getting people to quit believing in fairy tales. The bible is a toxic, de-humanizing political ideology. The separation of church and state is a mythical, whimsical dream when we consider that to become the President of the United States the person must place their hand on a bible and swear an oath to god and country. It would appear from that ceremony that the state and the church are one and the same. Breaking people from that type of enslavement and getting them to realize that racism, the degradation of women, pedophilia, slavery, and every other form of social degeneracy is right off the pages of the old testament bible. That’s a tougher job than getting them to admit that perhaps people can’t walk on water or talk to snakes.
rkleon
I just checked some figures with my friend Google.
In the 1930’s there were 505,000 Jews in Germany, today there are 118,000. None of whom appeared to be in prison.
I could find no figures for Muslims in the 1930’s but today there are about 5.5 Million. 12,300 of them seem to be in jail.
Having lived in Germany in Euskirchen and Darmstadt for a few years I often asked older Germans about the Jews.
They told me they were afraid of the Jews taking over their land. They were so successful and prosperous.
I could see their point but I felt perhaps there was an element of jealousy involved.
Today there are approximately 10 times more Muslims in Germany than there were Jews , yet the Germans appear to have no concerns about the infiltration of Muslims, Infiltrate and Dominate does not appear to be in the German mindset.?
Cheers
rkl
bazza
Leon,
I take issue with you when you say that, “The good old Brits decided lets send them back to where they came from. So thousands of Jews were again evicted from their home lands and sent to this barren scrubland now called Israel.”
Nobody was ever “ evicted from their home lands and sent to […] Israel.
History shows that the overwhelming majority of post-war European Jews were intent on going to Israel for a new and better life. The early surges in migration were so great that the U. S. and U. K. had to take steps to stem the flow. It was wholly unnecessary to ‘send’ anybody against their will. There was a genuine fear in the West that massive influxes of Jews into the Middle East would antagonise the Arab nations; and it was they who had the oil.
Barry
Bob Hall
It’s not easy for those of us raised in a Christian society to see the big picture. I’m not sure from your letter why you’d post that on a site for atheists. I’m curious what you think atheist are. An eye for an eye is a Christian concept and from my experience, no atheist would even suggest that it’s within someone’s right to perpetuate a ‘Hatfield’s and McCoy’ type scenario – especially with a gun in one hand and a bible in the other. If we on the outside of this want to have a say (and by all means we should demand so because war is a global issue), then the only thing that should matter is that it stop. And a word from the wise … don’t get drawn into racist comparisons and such. Racism has no place in the atheistic model of society. Racism I.E. human stereotypes and the concept of genetic predisposition to behavior is a religious concept and must be exposed and irradicated if we are to progress as a human family. Racist imprinting has its roots in Genisis with not only the story of the creation of the species ‘In gods image’, but also in the tale of Noah and what happened after the flood. Don’t forget that according to that story, the world was repopulated from Noah and his wife and their 3 sons and their wives – 8 people. If you’re not familiar with it, read up on that story and especially the fate of Ham. This is the basis of the racial profiling and institutionalized discrimination that has plagued humans since the pen hit the paper on that one. We live in the age of information, but most of it unfortunately is garbage. We can’t get our information about current events from TV news or our history from Hollywood movies. If we let racist propaganda work its ugly magic on our psyche, it’ll obscure our view of the issue of getting religion out of our governing affairs. It’s a much bigger issue than just who threw the first punch. This situation has happened over and over. This is a very big event because of the magnitude of it and because there is a library of footage of war crimes being filmed live as they happen. But the big reason for my interest at this time is the obvious religious nature of the genocide. That cannot be defended no matter how it’s being framed on the news.
rkleon
As an Atheist I can agree that religion is a big issue in todays world,.
However I consider that Jews are the least to blame in this modern era. My question is, what would any country do if a neighbour launched 5,000, shall I write that…. FIVE THOUSAND, rockets indiscriminately into your land, killing many innocent people, then advancing into you land and killing many more.? Sit back in your woke chair and TuT?
My view is that .. if you poke a sleeping Lion with a sharp stick you can expect some sudden violence.
Check the respective figures in your country… How many Jews are in Jail for committing crimes ???
Which countries does Israel attack without warning or provocation.? Doers Israel dig tunnels to access their neighbours?
Contemplate the meaning of democracy. Which countries in the Middle East are Democratic?
Is it wrong for a Democratic country to defend its beliefs.?
When Arab countries attack other Arab countries, i.e. Saudi, Yemen, Jordan, Lebanon is there any comments from the Left?
Of course not. The left don’t give a Fiddlers …… for the Arabs. They only HATE Jews and use any excuse to blame them.
There are almost as many Arab Muslims living peacefully in Israel as there are in Gaza. Does anyone mention them.?
When Morocco, Algeria, Libiya, Jordan, Lebanon, etc,, evicted ALL of the Jews living in their lands, did anyone complain?
Of course not, hating Jews is a world wide pastime.
With so many in the world against them, they naturally feel the necessity to defend themselves..
I was in the Royal Navy in the 60’s and our ship visited Israel. Some of the crew took a coach trip to discover more of the country. It was noted that one side of the road was full of fruit trees and other crops, The other side was dry and arid.
It was explained that the dry forgotten land was Arab land and their reasoning was that if Allah wanted flowers in the desert then He would have put flowers in the desert. That epitomises their attitude..
When early visitors saw how destitute the land now called Israel was they commented on this useless barren land.
So after WWII it was discussed what to do with all the UNWANTED Jews in Europe. The good old Brits decided lets send them back to where they came from. So thousands of Jews were again evicted from their home lands and sent to this barren scrubland now called Israel. Did the Jews get on their knees and wailed at their God asking Him to put flowers in the desert.
NO… They got off their backsides and got stuck into the monumental task of making their land productive.
Wow…. How that upset the Arabs…. So now they want the land back again. What a surprise.!
Do I think all Arabs are lazy good for nothing warmongers. Of course not ! Like all races and religions on earth many are hardworking decent people who hate the way their leaders treat them and their countries.
Again the leaders use the threat of Allahs displeasure to force them into obeying their whims.
My owns simple mantra is that… Kind and Considerate people do not commit crimes.
Here endeth my tirade in defense of Jews.
Sincerely Leon
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